Clicktivism vs Activism - another discussion

For those of us who were not here yesterday for the clicktivism vs activism debate, we are taking it away for another spin..
The man conclusion of last nights debate is that online and offline activism can not work one without the other. Also

/more notes coming from @shrinkydinky http://ecflive.fairsay.com/22/19-clicktivism//

Building lists - powerful fundraising tool.
Don't we do the same with campaigns? We are inventing campaigns to engage people - is this ethical? There is a responsibility of what we do. Focus on numbers is damaging the quality of campaigns. Where you are letting numbers come into the way of the issue.

If you build the list in order to use it for engagement once we need them.
We shouldn't idealise what we had before.

Clay Shirky challeneged charity's idea of engagement in the network for good webinar:

Your users are not like you. activists are active, hence the name.
And if everybody outside of your organization cared as much about your subject as you do inside your
organization, your organization would be a thousand times larger than it actually is.

It’s not a matter of turning everyone into an activist, but rather a matter of saying, “We’re going to reach
people where they are. We’re going to reach people at the level that they care about this.”

If I go to Wikipedia, I don’t have to care about Wikipedia as a whole, I can edit one article. I can edit an article on the US highway system and never care that there are articles on both the Crimean War and Britney Spears. It doesn’t matter to me.
The smallest job I can do on Wikipedia is a tiny edit. I can fix a comma splice. I can change a typo.
And so, Wikipedia is able to integrate the work of literally millions of people because those people don’t
have to be activists, they don’t have to be passionate. In fact, they can be, just a little bit annoyed that
there’s a comma splice on a page they happen to care about, fix that comma splice, never be seen from
again, and still have added some value to the system.

If people see that they are part of a big group - it will help building a momentum around the issue.
Where are we actually powerful - in the polling booth really.
Difference in corporate campaigning and political campaigning. Corporations are bothered about how many people have seen your message and they will care about their potential and current customers.

We need to invest more in building up people to become more and more engaged

Erick Lee in the session yesterday - we are all on the same side. What about the right using these same techniques? british Gas buit a website for schools saying tat they are one of the greenest companies in the UK.